[00:00:00] What is up guys, I have a very special episode for you today. I'm sharing a raw uncut interview where I pull back the curtain of what I'm currently doing, both my photography business and my education company. This video is a bit different from what I usually post here, but it's one that I think will help you a lot, especially if you're struggling to get consistent clients, this is going to be a 30 minute raw uncut interview of me.
Giving advice to my younger self. These are the things that I wish I knew when I was starting down this path as a creative freelancer. Joey Pusateri is interviewing me here. Joey is a Chicago based content creator and creative freelancer working with some of the biggest sports teams, like the Chicago bears.
He posts amazing content on his YouTube channel, which I'll link down the show notes, go check out his stuff. And I hope you enjoy this interview. And if you find value in this one and you want to pay it forward, please share it with a creative freelancer in your life or share it on social media. You might just help someone start living their dream life.
Thank you. Welcome to [00:01:00] the creative biz launch podcast, where we talk about how to grow your creative business and scale it to six figures, whether you're a photographer, filmmaker, or designer. You'll find something of value here. First question I got for you today. We're going to hop right into it. All right, let's do it.
What's the cold email strategy here? How do you initially get that client who you have no idea who they are? I never talked to them before. How do you get that first response? And not only that, but turn it into a five figure client. Yeah, let's do it. First off. Thanks for having me on pump to be here, but in terms of cold email, um, there's a lot of moving parts to it and it's easy to get overwhelmed by it, but the basics of the cold email, the whole point of saying the cold email is not to book a project from it, it's to get them like on a phone call.
So we're saying these cold emails to clients, not so much to book the project right then and there. We're trying to get them on a call to later close that deal. Talk about why they would actually want to work with us, all that good stuff. So with cold email, there's a lot that kind of goes into it. [00:02:00] And step one of that is finding the right people to reach out to.
So you don't want to just cold email. Everyone you find every email, you find you want the right fit. So for me, my company does a food and beverage product photography. So it wouldn't make sense for me to like email a company that makes cosmetics. Right. Cause they're not in my like target niche. So I've identified kind of my niche.
It's food and beverage product photography. And in that I'm trying to find people inside of that niche to email. So that'd be like marketing directors in the food and beverage space. So maybe I'd want to email a cold brew brand, find their marketing directors, email, and then send them an email. Uh, with that inside of the email, are you conveying that that is your niche and you're, you're the guy when it comes to product photography, or are you waiting to send your portfolio?
Yeah. So inside of that cold email, um, you kind of want to make it short and sweet. So step one was finding the email address. Step two is actually landing in their inbox and getting them to open that email. So we want some sort [00:03:00] of subject line that makes them curious to see, um, who we are, why we're in their inbox.
So we don't want something like super generic, like photographer looking for work or videographer. Um, trying to find a new client. We want to evoke some sort of curiosity with this, with this potential client. So that's going to be something like new ideas for this brand or quick question for this brand.
Um, that kind of subject line is super short to the point and makes them wonder why we're in their inbox. Now, what you don't want to do is have some sort of like misleading subject line. I know some people do like reply or R E colon colon something. And if you get that, sure, you might get an open, but then that guy's not going to trust you.
They're not going to want to answer your email. So we got that subject line. They open the email and then comes in the actual body of the content. So for the body of the content there, would you mind giving an example of what it looks like? And we can keep this short, but I just think it would help somebody to actually know what you're writing because.[00:04:00]
Cold emails are hard to write when you sit down to write one. It's frustrating because you might not get a reply for the first 50. Maybe you're doing something wrong. Maybe you're not reaching out to the right people. But what does the body of that look like? Are you joking around? Are you having fun? Are you just straight to the point?
Yeah. So the body, um, I like to follow like a three step framework. So, uh, kind of like you're making content. Number one is you want to hook them. So grab their attention. So, the first sentence has to be personalized, has to be unique to this person. Otherwise, they get so many emails each day, each week, they're not, you're not going to stand out if it's generic.
So, I like to make it personalized. Humor is great for these things. So, if it's, um, if you can make a joke or like play on words, they're going to remember that. So, personalized, like, have their name in there, have their brand name in there, the company that you're reaching out to. And that's kind of like the hook.
Then you want to provide some credibility. So, why should they listen to what you're saying? Um, if you have any previous client experience, you could name drop people there, um, say how many people you've [00:05:00] worked with, what your niche is. And then I would like link to your portfolio right then and there. Or you can mention like a previous client or case study that you can also link right then and there.
Cause you hook them, you provide some credibility. So now you want them to see that you actually do what you said you do. So provide them some proof there. Um, and then last step here is going to be some sort of call to action. So I mentioned, you don't want to like pitch them a project right then and there.
You want to ask them to hop on a phone call, see if you can actually help them with whatever content there they need help with. Um, so I asked for like a 10 minute call next week, uh, next day, same day. Um, just provide a very clear call to action so they can answer your email. Awesome. And so inside of your.
Umbrella, you're a photographer, you have a photography business and you also create your own content. I'm curious how you approach creating your content to get people to funnel into your photography business, because if I'm correct, is that the idea where that's your marketing tactic to get people to come in [00:06:00] there?
So that used to be my, uh, strategy. Um, when I was starting out and up until like 20, 22 ish. So I have like my own Instagram page, um, which is all like creative business education, where I teach other creatives, like how to build and scare scale their businesses. And then I have like my piano productions page, which is just all product photography.
So you're right there. I was like building my brand there and kind of like. Providing, um, content that these brands could see and then possibly like reach out to me. Um, and the way I like view content in terms of, uh, landing brand deals is content kind of just like backs up that you are who you say you are.
So that's kind of your brand. Um, if you pitch someone via email, they're going to want to look you up. They're going to look up your page, see if you're actually posting, uh, Uh, the content that you claim you're shooting for these clients. So they're just going to use that almost like a, like a resume. See if you actually do what you say you do.
So in terms of marketing strategy for, uh, like the product photography business, then yeah, that's super important. [00:07:00] Right. So let's dive into your educational, your, your educational content and your course that you have. Tell me about that, where that idea even came from. I'm sure, did it stem from you having problems in the beginning?
You're like, damn, I wish there was one spot that I could go and have all of this. Just tell me about that and, uh, how, how that ended up becoming a thing. Yeah. So that was a long process. So I, I started my company in 2019, um, and didn't really land my first client for like 10 months, um, of just like trying everything, taking a bunch of online courses.
I tried to like learn this stuff. I think, uh, you had Zach do on the podcast. Yeah. I took his online course and that was huge for learning sales. Um, there was still a lot of stuff that I had to figure out. So it was a lot of time just tinkering with different things. Um, and then like when I landed that first client, the, uh, the next like 10 came like right away.
Cause I feel like I cracked the system and clients just kept coming. Um, kept coming into like my business really, really quickly. [00:08:00] And I saw a lot of my peers at the time weren't having that same success. So after doing that, like product photography, um, like a hundred percent all in for like two years, I started actually making content around like the business side of things because I was doing something that other people weren't.
So I wanted to like, kind of give back to the community that taught me everything. Like. Um, I knew, so I started that YouTube channel and then start posting content on there. Um, and then over the course of like the next two years, I would get like the occasional comment or like message saying like, Hey, your content helped me land a client.
The stuff you're teaching helped me quit my job. And like getting that kind of feedback, like just made me feel really good. So like selfishly, I wanted to keep doing this content to like get those nice comments, but then also helping all these people was really, really cool. Um, and from that, like the course idea kind of stemmed that I could have some sort of step by step program that people can follow to just accelerate their growth.
Cause I, I share a bunch of great resources online for free and just doing that, you can create your own [00:09:00] business. But if you want to like shortcut, like the painful mistakes along the way and just have a complete blueprint, that's why I created like a paid course to help the people that want to just shortcut the process.
How do you balance between. still being in photography while teaching photography, because as I develop my content, one of the things that I try and remind myself of over and over again, and as it will end up growing, I want to make sure I'm always in the space of doing freelance or taking jobs that are in the space because If not, you end up becoming the professor who doesn't work in the industry.
So what's that balance been like for you as you've made more money on your educational side to still make sure that you are in the nitty gritty so that you know the problems that are coming up today that four years ago whenever you were in the thick of things weren't really a problem. Yeah, that's a great question.
I think that's where a lot of like online course creators go wrong is [00:10:00] they just like go... Oh, and we do this course thing. So right now, I guess I've been in like a transition mode for the past. Two years since I, I guess last year, since I launched the course where most of my time is spent on the photography business and then like a small part was spent on the online program.
Um, and then this past year that's kind of flipped. So I'm still in my photography business working with like a handful of retainer clients. So we're still doing like the same stuff over and over again, like on a monthly basis. These are just like. I got to like handpick the best clients I had, and then I put my time into those clients and they're super easy to work with high paying, um, and that's kind of like the goal of any photographer, just like really easy retainer clients.
Um, but at the same time, I'm still like trying to stay up to date with like all the new softwares coming out, like AI for both like the creative stuff, like photography and then AI for like reaching out to clients, like how can we use AI in our business? So there's all these like new technologies coming out.
So. Testing those things, um, and then kind of building it into the program that I have where I'm working with creative. [00:11:00] So trying to build it out continuously with the latest and greatest stuff. So it's, it's a challenge to balance both, but I think finding the time to actually still do some of the photography is important just so I stay on top of that.
And, um, , I guess it's a long answer to your question. No, I, I love it. I, I have kind of a two, two-parter now. It's so a lot of agencies or a lot of creatives that I know of, and this is also inside of what you're doing with your educational content. They, there's a creative and then there's a business mind.
Mm-Hmm. . And when it comes to ai, you can almost cancel out some of those hirings that you would've had to make. In the past where I'm curious what the AI tools that have been the most helpful to you are, and how those have potentially saved you money in the long run. So instead of hiring somebody to come in and do this little grunt work, how has AI [00:12:00] helped you eliminate those little tasks and make your life easier?
Yeah, I mean, AI has played a pretty big role in my business. I don't really use it. Much for any photography or the creative stuff. Like I've messed around with Photoshop's AI, but it's not perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's, it's too. It's very much still in the development stage. It's cool at first, but then you're like, all right, the useful tools.
I don't know what to say. Yeah. But like the promise of AI is pretty big. Cause it's essentially an employee that can work for you 24 seven has like a college degree is like trained on whatever you want. Um, but the reality of it is it's not like that good yet. The one tool I use the most is probably chat GPT.
So like for my content, like I'll use chat GPT to help me, um, generate ideas for like videos and help me like script stuff. Um, with like, just like an outline and then I'll for like a YouTube video, I'll write all myself. Um, and then I'll kind of use, uh, chat GPT to help rework that script into other formats.
So I have a YouTube channel and a lot of my audience is [00:13:00] on there, but there's also people on like in a newsletter format or like on LinkedIn or Twitter that aren't in the YouTube community. So I kind of repurpose that content using chat GPT as like a first draft for these different platforms. Um, and then I go in and kind of rewrite it.
For that platform. And that's how I've been using chat GPT so far. So it saves me a lot of time. Um, but it's really far from perfect. So you're putting in your script from a long form YouTube video and it can pretty much give you the spark notes version of it and really minimize it. So then you can put it on Twitter, you can put it on the different platforms.
Like you do the slideshows on Instagram or you'll put just like a screenshot of a tweet. Those usually stem from a longer form. Yeah. So a lot of those are from longer form scripts. I also do like unique content for that as well, just to mix it up. Um, but a lot of that stuff is from just like a longer format script to reach wider audiences, because I don't watch, like, I follow a lot of creators and I don't see all the stuff they put out.
So maybe I'll see a [00:14:00] YouTube video and then like a short, and then they'll give me like a comprehensive overview of what they put out that week. So I'm trying to have like the same approach to content. And nowadays, I mean, it seems like. Volume and like the amount you put out just so important. So it's just helped me do that.
And yeah, I think It's something that I have to constantly remind myself to of is even if you're putting out You know bite sized content of a long form piece You have to recognize that your entire audience over every platform does not see every single thing that you post You're the only one that's seeing that you might have posted very similar things Three times in a row.
Maybe some other people do, but for the most part, those three videos are reaching three different audiences, but it, it makes it, I don't know. It makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable whenever I'm like, okay, I'm putting out. A bunch of clips from this one thing, but you have to recognize that those clips might take somebody to the long [00:15:00] form.
They take some of you in another clip or this their first time seeing you. And I agree. The quantity is. It's such a beast and for a while I was putting out a YouTube short every single day and recently I just haven't been able to keep up with that and I'm going to get back to it and I've actually seen a decline in my numbers on YouTube just because I'm not posting as much and for a while I was like, Oh, maybe I just start posting better things less, but I think I'm going to go back to the daily content on shorts.
because staying in people's eyeballs, finding that new audience, it, It can't really do much harm whenever you hold yourself to a certain standard. It's only going to help you. You don't want to be putting out content that you're just like, all right, I just need to get something out. But if you have a standard that it has to be to, and you batch that content, I think there's only positive value that's going to come out of it from you putting out that quantity.
Yeah, I agree a hundred percent with that. [00:16:00] My, um, business coach that I work with, he says something that like you get tired of your content way before your audience does. So like to you, it might feel like you're saying the same thing over and over again, but to your audience, like they're not going to notice there.
Maybe they haven't seen this stuff from you before. So it's important to like. Keep saying your message. If you're like truly believe in what you're saying, it's important to like say over and over again, get as much like volume out there of that stuff. Because if you can impact like one more person with your thing, it's worth it to keep posting that stuff.
And I consume a lot of podcasts as well. And sometimes I listen to somebody will be going on a podcast tour, you know, they might've just launched a book, whatever. So you see they go on like eight different podcasts and they might say the same thing. For the most part in every single one of those podcasts.
But if I hear it now versus in two weeks, maybe in two weeks, that's going to resonate with me more than it did right now. So that's even if the same people are hearing these concepts that you're [00:17:00] mentioning over and over again, for you, if, if you're mentioning business tips, somebody's like, Oh man, I finally need to just like.
Implement one tool into my business, but two weeks ago, they weren't thinking that now they see your video recommending one. Next thing you know, they're on your YouTube, hearing you explain how to use it. And then maybe they'll even buy a course because they're ready to go now. And that's just advertising as a whole too.
And just hitting customers over and over. We've all been on Instagram where you see the same ad coming up over and over again. So I want to go into the. I want to stay on the business topic because that's where I don't have as much expertise here. And if we can dive into it a little bit more, if you give me two or three tools that you are just like preaching, preaching, preaching to help people, these can be apps, these can be.
Tools, something as simple as like a to do list. Mm hmm. What are [00:18:00] those two or three things that help you a ton that you think would help somebody who's just trying to start? Yeah, so what you said there is like just trying to start is an important point because when I was first starting out, I kind of like went all in on like all these different softwares and I thought I had to like automate everything and do all this stuff.
And that actually just was a big mistake because I was 10 steps ahead of where I should have been. I should have been focusing on. The really fundamental basics that just get you, um, to where you want to be. If you're still not working with that many clients, like having a to do list that you stick to every single day, having a calendar that you use every single day is super important.
And until you can, like, actually stick to your commitments like that, there's no real reason to really start using automation tools or bigger tools, because for, like, a solopreneur, you are the biggest, like, hindrance to your business. So until you can, like, learn to... Beat procrastination, like follow that to do list.
There's no point in really like going past that. It's like a pyramid. You build that base first and then you like build tools on top of it. [00:19:00] Cause if you don't have that base, like all the tools that you have aren't going to do anything for that. Um, after like the calendar to do list, like some basic organization app, like Notion is fantastic.
Like it's super customizable. So I use notion for like planning all of my content, like that long form script goes in notion, the short form stuff goes in notion. Um, you can even have like a content calendar in there. It's a great, like. Next step if you're looking for something more advanced than a to do list and um, calendar, but I use like dozens of software So I can talk all day about different types of software for different levels, too I mean, I think there's different ones that are good for people like you said at different levels and Something like notion.
I haven't personally used but I know people it helps them stay organized and it's also just like an aesthetically pleasing one where You can have everything. It's not your notes app. It's not you just jotting down random notes. It can keep everything in one place. And as a creative and you're reaching creatives, I'm reaching creatives.
I think one of the things that [00:20:00] a lot of people struggle with is being scatterbrained and having even something as simple as collecting your thoughts in one place. It can be a notes tab on your iPhone, but writing things down, the ideas you come up with. And as you mentioned with the calendar, they're sticking to them.
It's going to be one of the most important things that you don't realize it, you don't realize how much of an effect it can make on you, where you holding yourself to doing these little tasks. Then they add up. Next thing you know, you got your dream client because you've been sending 40 cold emails a day.
Yeah. And I like what you said where automations don't really make sense until you yourself have done it over and over again, because if you're automating a cold email, but you haven't sent a lot of cold emails just manually in the past, I think there's almost this detachment from it where you don't feel the connection.
You don't know. What the process is like to send and [00:21:00] send and send and also you haven't seen the trial and error over time Yeah, if you just have it automated to send the same message to the same kind of client So many times a day for a month you might get some replies. Yeah, but you need to Figure out your structure that works for you.
And I think that's where the value comes in with somebody like you who's done it and can teach you and help people realize where they're going to make mistakes, you've already made the mistakes, and have kind of like an internet mentor to introduce you to these different topics. Yeah, like what you mentioned with um, cold email specifically, like in my program, like I actually teach like four levels of it, and like level one is like Fully manual, you're using like a spreadsheet and gmail and that's it because you have to like learn the basics of that and like what actually goes into it, like the hook, the credibility, the C.
T. A. Um, and then we go to like level two or three forward. There's like more automations and a bit less personalized, but [00:22:00] you can focus more on volume there. Um, so. I like teaching it that way. Cause like exactly what you said, you like learn why cold emails work, which ones work, which ones don't work. And then you can build from there.
So how into the nitty gritty are you getting on your course? Are you hopping on calls with them X amount of times a week? Are you helping them in the initial days? What tier of person are, are you? Wanting right now and how involved are you in their business? Yeah, so the whole program creative biz launch.
It's a 90 pre 90 pre recorded videos that go through everything from like business basics to Um, creating your offer, finding your niche, scaling your business, finding clients, um, and there's that prerecorded portion, but then we do weekly coaching calls. So once a week we do an hour coaching call where it's like a 30 minute me giving a lesson about some mindset thing, and then 30 minutes of like q and a.
So anyone that has questions about anything can just like get direct access to me on those coaching calls. Um, there's a [00:23:00] Discord community, so if you have questions outside of those calls, we have a community in there to answer those questions. So, um. I don't advertise it as like when I want access to me, um, because I don't want to like make that a, um, make that like a advertising point, but you essentially do have access to me whenever you want.
Um, so it's very personalized. Um, so yeah, it's the prerecorded stuff, the coaching calls, and then the discord community. Plus like, I mean, we have notion templates in there, uh, digital downloads, like full cold email scripts and yeah. Is that your main focus in your day to day is managing all of that and, you know, every day being on the discord to answer questions and like actively being there.
Yeah. So the way I split up my day is basically into three buckets. Um, bucket one is getting. It is kind of like a marketing bucket. So that's where I create content around the program to get more students inside the program. Bucket two is working on the course. So either [00:24:00] improving the course, answering questions, um, revising videos with like new strategies.
And then bucket three is kind of working like on the business. So figuring out how to support the business, how to grow it, how to manage my team. Um, kind of like working on the business. So if you've read, uh, the E Myth, um, he kind of talks about like the three different people inside your business, the, um, the entrepreneur, the manager and the, um, worker, I think.
So I kind of adopt that same mindset to, uh, to my program. And you try, I mean, it's just you. So you try and be all three of those at three different times throughout the day, is that what you're saying? Yeah. So that's like the goals I have for me. Um, I have a virtual assistant that's 40 hours a week, so she helps with the content side.
And then, um, some of like the admin stuff. I have an editor that does all the content editing. So I just like shoot the videos and script them and he edits them. Um, and then I have like a photo editor that works in my other company as well. So pivoting off of the business, I want to talk about product photography.
This isn't something that [00:25:00] I have a ton of experience with. I've definitely done it, but you realize how much more of a beast it is whenever you actually try and do it. So, uh, let's, let's talk. Um, we're very in the nitty gritty here of, of specs. And I'm curious what your setup looks like for a minimal product photography set up at your house.
Yeah. So, um, my approach to product photography has actually been pretty minimal, um, for most shoots, it's just one light and like a reflector. Um, some shoots require two or three, but it's usually just one light. Um, And a reflector and almost all the shoots are just like on a tabletop setting with, um, a backdrop, either colored backdrop or a textured backdrop from a place like Ericsson surfaces.
Um, camera gear, I just use a 24 to 70 zoom lens on a Sony. Um, I just like the convenience of a zoom, so I don't use primes for that. And the work that I do, I think is. As good as like any, like three lights set up with like super [00:26:00] prime lenses and stuff like that. Like I'm not shooting for Coca Cola, I'm shooting for your big e commerce brand, which doesn't need like the super, super polished photos that take like a week to produce one photo.
I'm just doing, um, more volume for these people to do, to use on their Facebook ads on their pages on that. So, uh, my stuff is minimalist, more minimal compared to like a huge photography studio, but that's exactly what I need. I'm like a. I'm one photographer in that business. I don't have like a team of photographers working around me.
So I've kind of designed the business to, um, enable that kind of setup. And that's what I like shooting the most too. So it's at that level where it's still challenging, like creatively challenging to, um, set up these scenes, but I'm not trying to like perfect the lights with like these complex setup either.
Yeah. How did you get to a point where you realized that you wanted to. Settle down in this niche in product photography. I know you you harp on niches over and over again And I think [00:27:00] it's it's very valuable. I'm just curious how how you one first got your Initial product photography job and where you realize that it really made sense to just say hey This is all I'm gonna do because at the end of the day, this is how I'm gonna benefit myself Yeah.
So, um, I guess a bit about, about my story, uh, I got my start in photography just in Chicago going out on weekends, shooting landscapes and like cityscape street photography, that stuff. And that's what I really enjoyed doing. Um, this was like 2017 through 2019, um, and then 2019 I want to start the business and the only way to really make money through that kind of stuff was like to sell prints.
Um, so I tried doing that, but it was really tough to make money. And if you want to make a lot of money, you're like. A living from that you had to be in galleries and stuff like that, which I honestly didn't have the patience to do. My priority was like, I don't like my nine to five. I want to get out of here.
So I started researching different areas of photography and product photography was [00:28:00] interesting because there's a very clear, like value proposition you have for companies. Like I take photos of your product, you get more sales. So like they pay me a thousand bucks for this. They can make over a thousand bucks back.
So there's a clear ROI and in my head that kind of made sense. So. Um, if I could like pitch this ROI to brands, they're more likely to work with me cause there was like a clear profit that they're going to get from working with me. Um, so that's when I dived into like the studio lighting, um, learned all of that.
Like I knew how to use a camera really well. So it's just like learning this new type of photography. Um, and from there I just started.
Um, and landed one coffee shop and like March of 2020, and then like next week, everything shut down. So I pivoted to e commerce, uh, photography because, um, COVID was going on. Um, and all like the coffee shops were closed, but e commerce was thriving. So that's kind of where I pivoted to and kind of what I've stuck with.
Have you enjoyed being pretty much all [00:29:00] work from home and working on your own time through working with these e commerce brands? Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. It's pretty wild that you can just have like, It's like a successful photography business without ever leaving your house. It's just like kind of surreal.
Um, yeah, I really liked the work from home, um, aspect of it. I think it's very important to have like dedicated workspaces and like living spaces to like detach from that. Um, but it's been great. So now as we wrap this up, I'm curious, what's next? What are you working towards right now? What's the big goal?
Yeah. So big vision is. Create the best online training for creative entrepreneurs and serve 10, 000 students. So that's like the. Big five to 10 year goal. Um, how many students are you at now? We're a bit over 50 inside of the program. Yeah. So, uh, really big goal. Um, Um, which is good because it's a scary goal and like, since I have that clear goal, it's kind of nice because every decision I make either brings me closer [00:30:00] to it or further away.
So I can just easily make good decisions now. Yeah. I love that. I think having that goal, I like how you said scary goal because it's like so big where you're like, well, I know how I'm going to get there. When I'm going to get there. I have no idea. And exactly how I'm not really sure, but I think it helps to have this really reach goal that you're always working towards.
Every decision is really oriented, oriented around that today, tomorrow and a year from now. Thanks for coming on though, man. You provide a ton of value and I think people are going to really enjoy this one. Love it. Yeah. It's been great. Cool. Thanks Joey.
